Please see my very similarly titled post within the fell section of the forum. I originally posted there as I hoped I would get a response but was by no means sure I would.
It would be great to have some more opinions on what we should include in our new club development plan. Please read my original post carefully, there is nothing wrong with Steve's proposal ( in fact far from it ) but I am keen to not get side tracked by this one idea.
Heres to plenty of contributions by you, the membership.
Cheers
Craig.
Where do you want road running in the club to go ?.
Moderators: Neil Gunn, Colin Ardron, Julian Brown, Nancy
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Where do you want road running in the club to go ?.
by Beneficial Dictator » Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:41 pm
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Beneficial Dictator - Elite athlete
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by Chris Bentley » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:41 pm
To me two big issues which spring to mind and which should at least be considered in the club's development plan are (1) the lack of integration between sections of the club, and (2) the transition between the junior and senior sections of the club.
While I agree that there must always be a place in the club for runners who wish to specialise in a particular area of running, I feel that at the moment (with a few exceptions) the club can operate as several mini-clubs. I for one would support the introduction of an overall club championship alongside the existing road / fell / cross country / track and field championships.
There are of course other factors (eg going away to university) which mean that many junior athletes do not remain with the club as seniors, but we do as a club lose almost all athletes in their late teens. It is worth noting that other Cheshire clubs (eg Vale Royal, Boalloy) have junior (ie U20) athletes active in the shorter road races (eg 5k races) or in trail events (eg Staffs Moorlands).
I wouldn't want to be side-tracked at the moment on the mechanics of how an overall club championship should work, but feel that it should include the following components:
1) Require completion of at least one race in each of road / fell / cross country and track & field
2) Include a relatively small number of events (say 15?) spread roughly evenly across the year (this would be to encourage participation in key events and ensure that the top runners across the various disciplines competed against each other)
3) Be locally based (again to encourage participation)
4) Avoid particularly specialist events (eg marathons, mountain marathons). Track and field could be catered for by requiring participation in a meeting rather than requiring a 100m sprint / pole vault / discus etc. Again this would be to make it as easy as possible for all to compete and find an overall club champion.
5) Run alongside the existing championships, to cater for those who wish to travel further afield or compete in more specialist events.
Plenty to ponder....
While I agree that there must always be a place in the club for runners who wish to specialise in a particular area of running, I feel that at the moment (with a few exceptions) the club can operate as several mini-clubs. I for one would support the introduction of an overall club championship alongside the existing road / fell / cross country / track and field championships.
There are of course other factors (eg going away to university) which mean that many junior athletes do not remain with the club as seniors, but we do as a club lose almost all athletes in their late teens. It is worth noting that other Cheshire clubs (eg Vale Royal, Boalloy) have junior (ie U20) athletes active in the shorter road races (eg 5k races) or in trail events (eg Staffs Moorlands).
I wouldn't want to be side-tracked at the moment on the mechanics of how an overall club championship should work, but feel that it should include the following components:
1) Require completion of at least one race in each of road / fell / cross country and track & field
2) Include a relatively small number of events (say 15?) spread roughly evenly across the year (this would be to encourage participation in key events and ensure that the top runners across the various disciplines competed against each other)
3) Be locally based (again to encourage participation)
4) Avoid particularly specialist events (eg marathons, mountain marathons). Track and field could be catered for by requiring participation in a meeting rather than requiring a 100m sprint / pole vault / discus etc. Again this would be to make it as easy as possible for all to compete and find an overall club champion.
5) Run alongside the existing championships, to cater for those who wish to travel further afield or compete in more specialist events.
Plenty to ponder....
- Chris Bentley
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by Beneficial Dictator » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:46 am
Well its a good show by the few, Steve Lomas, Chris Bentley, Fran Swallow etc... 
But the oh so usual deafening silence from the great majority of the road runners.
Clearly you don't really care very much what your club does for your benefit.
In a word, Disapointing.
Craig.
But the oh so usual deafening silence from the great majority of the road runners.
Clearly you don't really care very much what your club does for your benefit.
In a word, Disapointing.
Craig.
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Beneficial Dictator - Elite athlete
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by Julian Brown » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:39 pm
Steve added a response on the fell section, copied below
'Dear All,
I have recently spoken briefly to Craig about putting forward the following proposal for a change to the Club’s series races of next year and future years and I thought it would be appropriate to place this idea on this thread;
I felt this change may help to promote Harriers’ participation in races and also help to bring some of the unofficial different factions of the club even further together.
It would basically mean a ‘Main’ club series where there would be an amalgamation of shorter fell races, trail, road and cross country races. Additionally, a few of the longer fell races - one example being the Club’s own Fell Handicap - could be included as could some of the fairly ultra-long races such as the Bullock Smithy, Grindleford Gallop, Four Inns and the Tour of Bradwell.
I envisage that this could be as many as 30 or 40 races through the year and perhaps to qualify to finish in the final placings of the series each runner may only have to complete say 10, 12, 15 or 20 races. The number of races, which races and the number of races to qualify etc, etc would have to be decided by a small committee/get-together.
The club could benefit with a stronger presence at local fell races, Cheshire Grand Prix road races and Manchester League Cross Country races. However, with a relatively few number of races to qualify for a final placing, a runner, for instance, who normally restricts him or herself to fell, would not be forced to do many, or any at all, road races. There would be no rule to enforce that a runner completes a certain amount of each category of race except for a stipulation that a member should do so many (to be decided) trail or short fell races, this to be explained later on. No ‘specialist’ runner would be put at a disadvantage such would be the scope of the races on offer relative to the amount a runner would have to do to qualify.
If desired and by default anyway, there could still remain series’ within the Main series, for instance, the Club Road Race Championship, the Wednesday night fell series and the Cross Country series.
The fell section could – and would want to – still retain a separate Club Fell Championship which would then (but also still include the shorter fell races if it be so wished) take in the longer fell races, for example, the Edale Skyline event, the main Kinder races, the main races in the Lakes and elsewhere and Mountain Marathon type races – or those races that are designated as part of the National Fell series in any particular year.
With regard to the Fell and ‘Main’ series’ running ‘side by side’, it would be inevitable that some dates would clash (even within the Main series itself) but this shouldn’t matter too much because, in the Main series, there would be lots of races to choose from.
An unlikely consequence of this - because there may be relatively few races needed to qualify for a series placing (and/or runners’ best races within the series) - may mean that more than one runner could, theoretically, gain maximum points in the Main series. Some kind of countback (maybe the most participation in races) could built in, in order to decide winners (open, vet, mens, ladies etc)’.
This situation would probably not occur though because there would bound to be a certain amount of overlaps where close rivals would compete in the same races and the faster runner would prevail. In fact, if the rule I mentioned earlier was introduced, that a certain number of trail or short fell races have to be completed, then that should help to avoid that scenario.
If there were date clashes within the Main series itself, consideration may have to be given so as not to compromise team focus on the Cheshire Road Race Grand Prix, Manchester XC League and the National Fell Championship. A lot of the road and XC races, if not all, would be included in the new series (I think it would be easy to automatically include all the Cheshire GP races and the Manchester XC League races) though this would not necessarily mean any compromises are avoided if there is another main series race on the same day or near that day. By and large though, as it stands, the races and their respective dates, especially in the winter period, are all neatly arranged around each other.
The introduction of a Main series would then mean that trail races are ‘recognised’ for they are not really included in any one category of the club at the moment. I refer to races such as the Goyt Valley 10K, the Wizard 5 and the Staffordshire Moorlands Summer Trail series as well as the races previously mentioned, like the Bullock Smithy. I feel that some of these trail races, along with the shorter fell races, would definitely appeal to fell and road runners alike.
Examples of shorter fell races, that could possibly be included in the Main series, would be events such as the Wincle Trout, Cloud Nine, Mow Cop, Rainow 5, Boars Head, Goyt’s Moss, Bollington Nostalgia, Shining Tor, etc. Some of our own Club’s shorter races, where not many volunteers are required as officials, could also be included, such as the Langley Fete Fell race and possibly the Forest 5, Bollington 3 Peaks, Tegg’s Nose and Langley 7.
It is these trail races and the shorter fell races where there is potential for competition overlap between predominantly fell runners and predominately road runners and/or XC runners. I therefore see these races as the key ingredient for making the series work very successfully and allowing good integration between all unofficial sections of the club within a championship format.
I’m just speculating here, but for the Main series, the Club may now see fit that prizes could be budgeted for. The only section of the club that may be then, therefore, be neglected by such favour would be the track section but possibly, they could be catered for in a similar way. Or, a track event, such as the annual Club Track (&Field) Championship could even be included in the series?
For the new series, a special mememto, mug, T-shirt, or something more substantial, could be presented to every participant who completes a required number of races.
Additionally, the same 'goodies' could be made available for those who volunteer to help at various events that the Club stages, including, for example, the coaches at the track or marshalls at any given event.
It is the case at the moment that a lot of the so-called ‘C’ group runners don’t race much at the moment. As a way of encouraging more race participation from that group then a separate ‘C’ Group championship could be introduced. Having spoken to ‘C’ group leader Dave Jackson, he thinks there would be interest in such a competition and he would certainly help to promote it (it would have to be decided how such a runner would be classified).
It could be that the series’ winners’ (open, vet, men, ladies, ‘C’ group etc) be termed as ‘Overall Club Champion’ with appropriate trophy to match.
Running of the series would mean more volunteers. For example, Chris Harbron currently updates the club’s road race championship table and I don’t think he could be expected to administrate the whole series table on his own and possibly one person wouldn’t be expected to promote and report on each race.
If there were prizes available someone could be needed to administrate the design, sourcing and distribution of prizes.
There would be a fair amount of detail to discuss and probably alter (and things that I’ve not thought of) prior to setting up such a series.
This is just an idea and I’m sure others will have different ideas or members may think that the present arrangement should stay the same.
Most importantly, I wouldn’t want to see the situation where members think they’re being pressurised into racing and so if the majority of people think this idea is too ‘progressive’ or complicated then that’s fine by me.
Best regards, Steve'
and Bob has included his thoughts here
'Steve, Somehow I think your proposal has got linked into the fell running forum and I was unable to find it.
The club obviously needs an overall development plan, that I am prepared to pull together, once we have requirements from each major section of the club. So if you can coordinate the response from the road runners that would be great.
A comparison was made with Wilmslow at our latest committee meeting. They have a smaller membership than us, but tend to outperform us because they all focus on entering an agreed set of races, with virtually no deviation. They also tend to get together more socially. They are all seniors.
I think we should become more race focussed without losing social runners. However, I also think that training for trainings sake does virtually nothing for the club. Ok it gets people fit,but we are an athletics club not a leisure centre.
One or two things you might like to consider.
B group becomes A group, coasters becomes the B group,; the group P&I take on Wed and Fridays becomes the C group ( they are not beginners anymore some having been with us more than two years!), and Neil Gunns Run England initiative becomes the beginners group.
Additionally, there are some new proposals for the run England programme that we need to discuss and perhaps incorporate.'
(end of Bob's bit)
For what it's worth, I think the following things apply to the road and fell sections..
we have plenty of senior members....
mostly vets in each sections,
and generally don't struggle to get folk out on training nights,
but we are very poor at pinning a number on and having a go. (although perhaps just a little bit less so on the fells recently).
For instance I'll be at the Moorlands race at Biddulph tonight, I'd be suprised to see more than 3 or 4 other Harriers there but I bet there'll be 20 minimum from each of Wilmslow, Congleton, Moorlands and so on, (and probably more then 10 Mow Coppers, and they only have 30 odd members in the club !) and this has been / will be the case at most of the local races this summer.
None of this is really a criticism, if that's what everyone wants, then it's up to you I suppose, but I think it's just a bit of a shame we have a decent sized bunch of good athletes, and such a strong training base, but so few prepared to race.
But please, let your thoughts be known.
cheers julian
'Dear All,
I have recently spoken briefly to Craig about putting forward the following proposal for a change to the Club’s series races of next year and future years and I thought it would be appropriate to place this idea on this thread;
I felt this change may help to promote Harriers’ participation in races and also help to bring some of the unofficial different factions of the club even further together.
It would basically mean a ‘Main’ club series where there would be an amalgamation of shorter fell races, trail, road and cross country races. Additionally, a few of the longer fell races - one example being the Club’s own Fell Handicap - could be included as could some of the fairly ultra-long races such as the Bullock Smithy, Grindleford Gallop, Four Inns and the Tour of Bradwell.
I envisage that this could be as many as 30 or 40 races through the year and perhaps to qualify to finish in the final placings of the series each runner may only have to complete say 10, 12, 15 or 20 races. The number of races, which races and the number of races to qualify etc, etc would have to be decided by a small committee/get-together.
The club could benefit with a stronger presence at local fell races, Cheshire Grand Prix road races and Manchester League Cross Country races. However, with a relatively few number of races to qualify for a final placing, a runner, for instance, who normally restricts him or herself to fell, would not be forced to do many, or any at all, road races. There would be no rule to enforce that a runner completes a certain amount of each category of race except for a stipulation that a member should do so many (to be decided) trail or short fell races, this to be explained later on. No ‘specialist’ runner would be put at a disadvantage such would be the scope of the races on offer relative to the amount a runner would have to do to qualify.
If desired and by default anyway, there could still remain series’ within the Main series, for instance, the Club Road Race Championship, the Wednesday night fell series and the Cross Country series.
The fell section could – and would want to – still retain a separate Club Fell Championship which would then (but also still include the shorter fell races if it be so wished) take in the longer fell races, for example, the Edale Skyline event, the main Kinder races, the main races in the Lakes and elsewhere and Mountain Marathon type races – or those races that are designated as part of the National Fell series in any particular year.
With regard to the Fell and ‘Main’ series’ running ‘side by side’, it would be inevitable that some dates would clash (even within the Main series itself) but this shouldn’t matter too much because, in the Main series, there would be lots of races to choose from.
An unlikely consequence of this - because there may be relatively few races needed to qualify for a series placing (and/or runners’ best races within the series) - may mean that more than one runner could, theoretically, gain maximum points in the Main series. Some kind of countback (maybe the most participation in races) could built in, in order to decide winners (open, vet, mens, ladies etc)’.
This situation would probably not occur though because there would bound to be a certain amount of overlaps where close rivals would compete in the same races and the faster runner would prevail. In fact, if the rule I mentioned earlier was introduced, that a certain number of trail or short fell races have to be completed, then that should help to avoid that scenario.
If there were date clashes within the Main series itself, consideration may have to be given so as not to compromise team focus on the Cheshire Road Race Grand Prix, Manchester XC League and the National Fell Championship. A lot of the road and XC races, if not all, would be included in the new series (I think it would be easy to automatically include all the Cheshire GP races and the Manchester XC League races) though this would not necessarily mean any compromises are avoided if there is another main series race on the same day or near that day. By and large though, as it stands, the races and their respective dates, especially in the winter period, are all neatly arranged around each other.
The introduction of a Main series would then mean that trail races are ‘recognised’ for they are not really included in any one category of the club at the moment. I refer to races such as the Goyt Valley 10K, the Wizard 5 and the Staffordshire Moorlands Summer Trail series as well as the races previously mentioned, like the Bullock Smithy. I feel that some of these trail races, along with the shorter fell races, would definitely appeal to fell and road runners alike.
Examples of shorter fell races, that could possibly be included in the Main series, would be events such as the Wincle Trout, Cloud Nine, Mow Cop, Rainow 5, Boars Head, Goyt’s Moss, Bollington Nostalgia, Shining Tor, etc. Some of our own Club’s shorter races, where not many volunteers are required as officials, could also be included, such as the Langley Fete Fell race and possibly the Forest 5, Bollington 3 Peaks, Tegg’s Nose and Langley 7.
It is these trail races and the shorter fell races where there is potential for competition overlap between predominantly fell runners and predominately road runners and/or XC runners. I therefore see these races as the key ingredient for making the series work very successfully and allowing good integration between all unofficial sections of the club within a championship format.
I’m just speculating here, but for the Main series, the Club may now see fit that prizes could be budgeted for. The only section of the club that may be then, therefore, be neglected by such favour would be the track section but possibly, they could be catered for in a similar way. Or, a track event, such as the annual Club Track (&Field) Championship could even be included in the series?
For the new series, a special mememto, mug, T-shirt, or something more substantial, could be presented to every participant who completes a required number of races.
Additionally, the same 'goodies' could be made available for those who volunteer to help at various events that the Club stages, including, for example, the coaches at the track or marshalls at any given event.
It is the case at the moment that a lot of the so-called ‘C’ group runners don’t race much at the moment. As a way of encouraging more race participation from that group then a separate ‘C’ Group championship could be introduced. Having spoken to ‘C’ group leader Dave Jackson, he thinks there would be interest in such a competition and he would certainly help to promote it (it would have to be decided how such a runner would be classified).
It could be that the series’ winners’ (open, vet, men, ladies, ‘C’ group etc) be termed as ‘Overall Club Champion’ with appropriate trophy to match.
Running of the series would mean more volunteers. For example, Chris Harbron currently updates the club’s road race championship table and I don’t think he could be expected to administrate the whole series table on his own and possibly one person wouldn’t be expected to promote and report on each race.
If there were prizes available someone could be needed to administrate the design, sourcing and distribution of prizes.
There would be a fair amount of detail to discuss and probably alter (and things that I’ve not thought of) prior to setting up such a series.
This is just an idea and I’m sure others will have different ideas or members may think that the present arrangement should stay the same.
Most importantly, I wouldn’t want to see the situation where members think they’re being pressurised into racing and so if the majority of people think this idea is too ‘progressive’ or complicated then that’s fine by me.
Best regards, Steve'
and Bob has included his thoughts here
'Steve, Somehow I think your proposal has got linked into the fell running forum and I was unable to find it.
The club obviously needs an overall development plan, that I am prepared to pull together, once we have requirements from each major section of the club. So if you can coordinate the response from the road runners that would be great.
A comparison was made with Wilmslow at our latest committee meeting. They have a smaller membership than us, but tend to outperform us because they all focus on entering an agreed set of races, with virtually no deviation. They also tend to get together more socially. They are all seniors.
I think we should become more race focussed without losing social runners. However, I also think that training for trainings sake does virtually nothing for the club. Ok it gets people fit,but we are an athletics club not a leisure centre.
One or two things you might like to consider.
B group becomes A group, coasters becomes the B group,; the group P&I take on Wed and Fridays becomes the C group ( they are not beginners anymore some having been with us more than two years!), and Neil Gunns Run England initiative becomes the beginners group.
Additionally, there are some new proposals for the run England programme that we need to discuss and perhaps incorporate.'
(end of Bob's bit)
For what it's worth, I think the following things apply to the road and fell sections..
we have plenty of senior members....
mostly vets in each sections,
and generally don't struggle to get folk out on training nights,
but we are very poor at pinning a number on and having a go. (although perhaps just a little bit less so on the fells recently).
For instance I'll be at the Moorlands race at Biddulph tonight, I'd be suprised to see more than 3 or 4 other Harriers there but I bet there'll be 20 minimum from each of Wilmslow, Congleton, Moorlands and so on, (and probably more then 10 Mow Coppers, and they only have 30 odd members in the club !) and this has been / will be the case at most of the local races this summer.
None of this is really a criticism, if that's what everyone wants, then it's up to you I suppose, but I think it's just a bit of a shame we have a decent sized bunch of good athletes, and such a strong training base, but so few prepared to race.
But please, let your thoughts be known.
cheers julian
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Julian Brown - Elite athlete
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by Franswallow » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:02 pm
I agree Craig, more opinions are needed.
I will set a steady pace tonight with an emphasis on discussion (some might say "so what's new?" but I will ignore that)
May illicit more replies who knows
I will set a steady pace tonight with an emphasis on discussion (some might say "so what's new?" but I will ignore that)
May illicit more replies who knows
- Franswallow
- Mid pack runner
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by Neil Gunn » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:16 pm
Craig’s challenge to us all has made me think … I feel a little nervous about adding my thoughts to this road-running thread as although my wife (Alison) & I do help with the running of the club (as Editor of the GO Magazine and Club Treasurer) we are not really very good competing/training members.
I am very supportive of anything that we decide to do that keeps the club both inclusive (to encourage a wider membership of all abilities) and competitive (to meet the needs of competitive athletes).
Thoughts that I have are :-
1. To reinforce the advertising/information regarding what road-running sessions exist, when/where they are held, people to contact for each session and what to expect when you go along - this is to ensure that beginners, or social runners, find the group that suits them and improving athletes also find the right group – this can be done via the website, GO Magazine & by updating material handed out to new members
2. To strengthen our club approach to road races by having a stronger push towards certain races (an annual list of races where we want to have a lot of entries and do well) and a move towards stronger ‘community’ approach to all club members meeting before/after races (not just the ‘elite’ athletes) to share stories, to meet each other and to help each other.
3. To insist that Club Members run in Club Colours when competing in events where a reduced affiliated rate has been paid – this will require a development of clothing available (eg singlets + technical t-shirts) to meet everyone’s needs (I know that many runners will not run in a singlet). This will help with identifying other club members at events.
These are just a few thoughts to add to the discussion.
I think it is great that we are having this fact-finding activity in the fell, road, cross-country, track & field sections so the club can grow and yet meet the needs of the various disciplines – I do like the idea of a club championship as a way of ‘connecting’ the 5 disciplines.
I’ve been brave and posted … I hope others will also be brave enough to share their ideas as well so that the committee can develop the club in the way the members want.
Neil Gunn
Plodder
I am very supportive of anything that we decide to do that keeps the club both inclusive (to encourage a wider membership of all abilities) and competitive (to meet the needs of competitive athletes).
Thoughts that I have are :-
1. To reinforce the advertising/information regarding what road-running sessions exist, when/where they are held, people to contact for each session and what to expect when you go along - this is to ensure that beginners, or social runners, find the group that suits them and improving athletes also find the right group – this can be done via the website, GO Magazine & by updating material handed out to new members
2. To strengthen our club approach to road races by having a stronger push towards certain races (an annual list of races where we want to have a lot of entries and do well) and a move towards stronger ‘community’ approach to all club members meeting before/after races (not just the ‘elite’ athletes) to share stories, to meet each other and to help each other.
3. To insist that Club Members run in Club Colours when competing in events where a reduced affiliated rate has been paid – this will require a development of clothing available (eg singlets + technical t-shirts) to meet everyone’s needs (I know that many runners will not run in a singlet). This will help with identifying other club members at events.
These are just a few thoughts to add to the discussion.
I think it is great that we are having this fact-finding activity in the fell, road, cross-country, track & field sections so the club can grow and yet meet the needs of the various disciplines – I do like the idea of a club championship as a way of ‘connecting’ the 5 disciplines.
I’ve been brave and posted … I hope others will also be brave enough to share their ideas as well so that the committee can develop the club in the way the members want.
Neil Gunn
Plodder
Run for your life!
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Neil Gunn - Elite athlete
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by STEVE LOMAS » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:31 pm
Just at this stage, I felt that I had to make a reply to Neil's comment that we should try to have a stronger push on certain races which would be listed down.
I thought we did have a strong push on certain races - with an annual list! As for road running these races (which is listed by e-mail, website and club magazine!) are the seven Cheshire Grand Prix races per year and the twelve Club Championship races per year (which include the seven GP races).
We are lucky to have several very keen runners (not all of us are elite but everyone who competes regularly in these races share stories and acts as a team, there are no prima-donnas!) who have helped to place the Harriers in a high position in the GP table.
But do others in the club - who don't compete much - not see these series' as being special to focus on and help the club in a team environment ?
I relentlessly plug these races by e-mail (Julian helps in this regard too on the website) to a wide circulation list every week, I wonder what more focus we could have ?
I thought we did have a strong push on certain races - with an annual list! As for road running these races (which is listed by e-mail, website and club magazine!) are the seven Cheshire Grand Prix races per year and the twelve Club Championship races per year (which include the seven GP races).
We are lucky to have several very keen runners (not all of us are elite but everyone who competes regularly in these races share stories and acts as a team, there are no prima-donnas!) who have helped to place the Harriers in a high position in the GP table.
But do others in the club - who don't compete much - not see these series' as being special to focus on and help the club in a team environment ?
I relentlessly plug these races by e-mail (Julian helps in this regard too on the website) to a wide circulation list every week, I wonder what more focus we could have ?
- STEVE LOMAS
- Plodder
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- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:07 pm
by Neil Gunn » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:41 pm
Steve - I apologise if my ideas came across negatively as that was not my intention.
I know that you put a lot of effort into the reporting and advertising but I do still feel that we need to consider how we can help get even more people involved to help the club move forward (we do have almost 500 members).
There are still a lot of people out there who do not feel involved (either by lack of knowledge or fear of not being good enough) despite best efforts and my ideas were intended to help to get them involved.
As I said, I'm delighted that we are having this discussion as it will help the club to create a development plan to get us to where we want to be (section by section and also as a whole club).
Let the discussion continue!
Neil
I know that you put a lot of effort into the reporting and advertising but I do still feel that we need to consider how we can help get even more people involved to help the club move forward (we do have almost 500 members).
There are still a lot of people out there who do not feel involved (either by lack of knowledge or fear of not being good enough) despite best efforts and my ideas were intended to help to get them involved.
As I said, I'm delighted that we are having this discussion as it will help the club to create a development plan to get us to where we want to be (section by section and also as a whole club).
Let the discussion continue!
Neil
Run for your life!
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Neil Gunn - Elite athlete
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- Location: Macclesfield
by DominicTook » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:44 pm
You know - if this is about numbers - it may not be but if it is I tend to find that most people know of the Harriers (though sub 30 may not actually know who the Harriers are I have to admit) but don't know where to go to get info.
Also all the recruiting appears to be word of mouth - I'm sure this is entirely normal for a club that isn't able to raise funds and is run by the people who're actively competing within it.
But does the club have a presence in advertising materials in/around Macclesfield events/physical fitness centres/swimming pools/tracks/etc etc? I fully appreciate how big an undertaking that is having run two company's myself and having headed up teams marketing rather trickier products.
I'm thinking if numbers are an issue then this might draw more people in? Though finding the more competitive runners who will stay with the club is as ever more difficult. I'd be out running all the time if it weren't for injury - but hopefully I can curb that with a little patience and careful training.
Just trying to understand what the main issues are...hope that's ok.
Dom
Also all the recruiting appears to be word of mouth - I'm sure this is entirely normal for a club that isn't able to raise funds and is run by the people who're actively competing within it.
But does the club have a presence in advertising materials in/around Macclesfield events/physical fitness centres/swimming pools/tracks/etc etc? I fully appreciate how big an undertaking that is having run two company's myself and having headed up teams marketing rather trickier products.
I'm thinking if numbers are an issue then this might draw more people in? Though finding the more competitive runners who will stay with the club is as ever more difficult. I'd be out running all the time if it weren't for injury - but hopefully I can curb that with a little patience and careful training.
Just trying to understand what the main issues are...hope that's ok.
Dom
- DominicTook
- Mid pack runner
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:04 pm
Club Development
by Anne Farmer » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:41 pm
I think that this discussion has been needed for a while. As a member of the club for many years and having years of experience competing and training in track and field, road and cross country, i feel that the club championship race structure, social side of the club and the competing needs addressing.
As ladies road and cross country manager we are continully struggling to field strong teams or even at the moment complete teams in the Manchester Area Cross Country League and Grand Prix Races. These are the leagues that the club are focusing on opposed to open races. We have the talent and ability to beat Wilmslow and other clubs which we have proved several years ago winning both in the same season and becoming macc Harriers team of the year! Unfortunately after a core of 5/6 runners have now had children ( i now have 3!) & time out and others have family commitments and occasional injuries we do not have a pool of willing athletes to compete. Therefore we are drastically underperforming. Somehow we need to encourage and reward athletes to compete and as someone said Wilmslow always have 20/30 ladies at the start of cross country next to our 6/8, although we usually beat them when we have a team!! We need to be getting seniors to race like Wilmslow do, this may through their race programme and championship.
The social side of the club seems to me to be non existant except for training runs which makes it hard to get to know new and exsisting members and encourage them to race. I saw on Spectrum striders website that they have monthly curry nights, set meal, set price, set time etc as regular social events, also their website makes a big deal of their "Champion of Champions" which i suppose the new idea for club champs is?
When we decide on the new format and developmental changes i think we need to invite all members to come to an evening such as Hullys with a buffet and introduce the new concept, prizes, etc. We must make sure that that prizes and awards are available to all abilities e.g GP handicap and someone else suggested "C" group championship.
I hope that my first posting is of some interest although i have waffled on and i hope you could follow it! I will think some more and and post again soon.
Anne
As ladies road and cross country manager we are continully struggling to field strong teams or even at the moment complete teams in the Manchester Area Cross Country League and Grand Prix Races. These are the leagues that the club are focusing on opposed to open races. We have the talent and ability to beat Wilmslow and other clubs which we have proved several years ago winning both in the same season and becoming macc Harriers team of the year! Unfortunately after a core of 5/6 runners have now had children ( i now have 3!) & time out and others have family commitments and occasional injuries we do not have a pool of willing athletes to compete. Therefore we are drastically underperforming. Somehow we need to encourage and reward athletes to compete and as someone said Wilmslow always have 20/30 ladies at the start of cross country next to our 6/8, although we usually beat them when we have a team!! We need to be getting seniors to race like Wilmslow do, this may through their race programme and championship.
The social side of the club seems to me to be non existant except for training runs which makes it hard to get to know new and exsisting members and encourage them to race. I saw on Spectrum striders website that they have monthly curry nights, set meal, set price, set time etc as regular social events, also their website makes a big deal of their "Champion of Champions" which i suppose the new idea for club champs is?
When we decide on the new format and developmental changes i think we need to invite all members to come to an evening such as Hullys with a buffet and introduce the new concept, prizes, etc. We must make sure that that prizes and awards are available to all abilities e.g GP handicap and someone else suggested "C" group championship.
I hope that my first posting is of some interest although i have waffled on and i hope you could follow it! I will think some more and and post again soon.
Anne
- Anne Farmer
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by DominicTook » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:47 pm
I agree with Anne an evening to discuss and maybe even vote (maybe) on ideas is really an absolute must.
I'm enjoying the social side after the fell runs though - we had a good laugh the other night in the waters green tav haha. Thanks again for the lift back Andy!
Happy with regular socials here myself - maybe a position needs opening up for someone to do this regularly for the club? So it's not expected of say someone else who's busy with editorial/website/club business? I'd put myself forward but I couldn't balance it with work commitments.
Dom
I'm enjoying the social side after the fell runs though - we had a good laugh the other night in the waters green tav haha. Thanks again for the lift back Andy!
Happy with regular socials here myself - maybe a position needs opening up for someone to do this regularly for the club? So it's not expected of say someone else who's busy with editorial/website/club business? I'd put myself forward but I couldn't balance it with work commitments.
Dom
- DominicTook
- Mid pack runner
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- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:04 pm
by Beneficial Dictator » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:13 pm
Reply to Annes post, not waffle at all, you make some great points & raise really good ideas. I still think there a lot of very quiet members though who read the forum but don't contribute to it. Go on you know you want too !. 
Cheers
Craig
Cheers
Craig
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Beneficial Dictator - Elite athlete
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by STEVE LOMAS » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:57 pm
Dear All,
This is to remind everyone that a meeting is due to take place at 8.00pm on Monday, 15th August at Sutton Hall to discuss re-vamping the Club’s competitive racing series’ structure across different running disciplines, see also Chris Bentley’s post (within the 'General' section of the forum).
Further to Anne’s post above, there is more consensus across the Club that the Harriers’ are very under-represented at races when compared with other local clubs such as Wilmslow, Congleton, Vale Royal, Goyt Valley Striders and Buxton. Certain fell races may be an exception here, where Harriers' representation is still quite good.
First of all, everyone agrees that there’s nothing wrong if someone doesn’t wish to compete and if that’s the case then it’s nice just to train with such fellow members.
There’s many a time when everyone has injuries or illness. Some members also have long term injuries which mean that regular racing is not beneficial for them.
Job and family commitments are more important than racing too. There are also jobs to do around the home which can be more of a priority. And then there are holidays to take which everyone takes pleasure from.
As for commitment to the Club, it is fortunate that on occasions such as yesterday's Tegg's Nose Fell Race and September's Macclesfield Half Marathon, all members are ready to offer their time and services to ensure such races take place smoothly.
However, the meeting will discuss how to incentivise and encourage runners to compete and support the club at events such as the Cheshire Grand Prix, the Manchester Cross Country League, Staffordshire Moorlands Trail Series, Northern Track League and other local fell races.
Does everyone realise that regular racers of varying abilities are given a huge lift at events when they see plenty of fellow club members turn up to races? The team aspect of such a situation definitely helps individuals as a whole to perform better at races.
Members who think of themselves as being slow or of limited ability might be surprised that other clubs also regularly field such so-called runners in their own series’. These runners’ should not feel embarrassed to race, they are still extremely fit when compared with the vast majority of the UK population and everyone should be proud that they are fit enough to compete in any race. Races, for example the Cheshire Grand Prix series, aren’t staged purely for the benefit of elite runners.
In fact, it is probably not known by some that in such a series like the Cheshire GP, there are handicap prizes that so-called lesser runners can aim for.
It is a puzzle to those who compete regularly that some members only seem interested in entering half marathons or just the well-known very local races.
These members are often very passionate and keen to perform well in such half-marathons’ but do they appreciate that their half marathon times would hugely improve if they also raced in the many shorter events that they could enter ?
Anne mentions that the social side of the club doesn’t really occur at the moment. If more runners raced then the social side would have more chance of taking off – members would be more interested in occasions such as the Annual Awards evening. Training nights would be more interesting. However, one of the Club’s best social aspects would be the races themselves if lots of us took part.
Some members are perhaps fearful of the hard work that they think is involved in the races. Most regular racers say that they find the effort much more manageable if they’re always turning up to races which, in turn, would mean that their performance would be better.
I don’t think anyone would mind if some just decided to enter races and just have the intention of going round at their training pace.
Alternatively, if this was the case, they might find that they get caught up in the race and go harder. It works for some that they go every time into a race with this ‘training pace’ attitude but then it never happens because their competitive juices kick in instead!
At the meeting or on this forum, the club would like to hear ideas that may tempt runners to continually enter races.
Ideas might be;
A prize draw for those who have completed a certain amount of races to qualify for entry into such a draw.
Gifts for those who complete a certain amount of races. This could be t-shirts, sweatshirts, mugs or something more substantial.
Racer of the month awards.
Thank you.
Best regards,
Steve
This is to remind everyone that a meeting is due to take place at 8.00pm on Monday, 15th August at Sutton Hall to discuss re-vamping the Club’s competitive racing series’ structure across different running disciplines, see also Chris Bentley’s post (within the 'General' section of the forum).
Further to Anne’s post above, there is more consensus across the Club that the Harriers’ are very under-represented at races when compared with other local clubs such as Wilmslow, Congleton, Vale Royal, Goyt Valley Striders and Buxton. Certain fell races may be an exception here, where Harriers' representation is still quite good.
First of all, everyone agrees that there’s nothing wrong if someone doesn’t wish to compete and if that’s the case then it’s nice just to train with such fellow members.
There’s many a time when everyone has injuries or illness. Some members also have long term injuries which mean that regular racing is not beneficial for them.
Job and family commitments are more important than racing too. There are also jobs to do around the home which can be more of a priority. And then there are holidays to take which everyone takes pleasure from.
As for commitment to the Club, it is fortunate that on occasions such as yesterday's Tegg's Nose Fell Race and September's Macclesfield Half Marathon, all members are ready to offer their time and services to ensure such races take place smoothly.
However, the meeting will discuss how to incentivise and encourage runners to compete and support the club at events such as the Cheshire Grand Prix, the Manchester Cross Country League, Staffordshire Moorlands Trail Series, Northern Track League and other local fell races.
Does everyone realise that regular racers of varying abilities are given a huge lift at events when they see plenty of fellow club members turn up to races? The team aspect of such a situation definitely helps individuals as a whole to perform better at races.
Members who think of themselves as being slow or of limited ability might be surprised that other clubs also regularly field such so-called runners in their own series’. These runners’ should not feel embarrassed to race, they are still extremely fit when compared with the vast majority of the UK population and everyone should be proud that they are fit enough to compete in any race. Races, for example the Cheshire Grand Prix series, aren’t staged purely for the benefit of elite runners.
In fact, it is probably not known by some that in such a series like the Cheshire GP, there are handicap prizes that so-called lesser runners can aim for.
It is a puzzle to those who compete regularly that some members only seem interested in entering half marathons or just the well-known very local races.
These members are often very passionate and keen to perform well in such half-marathons’ but do they appreciate that their half marathon times would hugely improve if they also raced in the many shorter events that they could enter ?
Anne mentions that the social side of the club doesn’t really occur at the moment. If more runners raced then the social side would have more chance of taking off – members would be more interested in occasions such as the Annual Awards evening. Training nights would be more interesting. However, one of the Club’s best social aspects would be the races themselves if lots of us took part.
Some members are perhaps fearful of the hard work that they think is involved in the races. Most regular racers say that they find the effort much more manageable if they’re always turning up to races which, in turn, would mean that their performance would be better.
I don’t think anyone would mind if some just decided to enter races and just have the intention of going round at their training pace.
Alternatively, if this was the case, they might find that they get caught up in the race and go harder. It works for some that they go every time into a race with this ‘training pace’ attitude but then it never happens because their competitive juices kick in instead!
At the meeting or on this forum, the club would like to hear ideas that may tempt runners to continually enter races.
Ideas might be;
A prize draw for those who have completed a certain amount of races to qualify for entry into such a draw.
Gifts for those who complete a certain amount of races. This could be t-shirts, sweatshirts, mugs or something more substantial.
Racer of the month awards.
Thank you.
Best regards,
Steve
- STEVE LOMAS
- Plodder
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:07 pm
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