FRA and UK Athletics

[Welsh Harrier (MC)]

I apologise in advance that this is a longwinded posting but this is an issue which seems to be provoking a lot of angst among fellrunners at the moment.

At the recent FRA AGM in November the vast majority of those present indicated that they felt the FRA would be better off being out of UK Athletics. This debate has been rumbling on for years and in Wales, we decided over 2 years ago to disengage hence the independent Welsh Fell Runners Association which has been working very well. We organise our own insurance and now most fell races in Wales are organised by WFRA members. As far as England is concerned this letter from Dave Jones helps to explain where things seem to be up to. Regardless of where you actually stand over this issue you might well agree that it is worthwhile letting Dave know that you support the idea of an open meeting to find out what the majority of FRA members actually want to happen!

From: Dave Jones,
114 Dale House Fold, Poynton,
Stockport, SK12 1DG.

Email : djonesfra@aol.com
Telephone : 01625 873347.

The FRA and UK Athletics

Dear

At the recent FRA AGM a Motion was put forward for the FRA to secede from UK Athletics and hence return the management of fell-running to fell-runners.
The Chairman refused to allow the Motion to go forward as it had missed the deadline for submission but he agreed that the issue should be discussed at the end of the meeting. This discussion was quite lengthy and detailed and at its conclusion a vote was taken of all the members present at the AGM to see what the position was – this vote was “overwhelmingly” (quoted from the AGM Minutes) in favour of seceding from UK Athletics and it’s worth mentioning that around 50% of the people at the meeting were race organisers, on whom our sport depends.

However, despite this clear expression of the AGM opinion, which would seem to indicate the need for a ballot of the whole Membership, all that has happened is that a sub-Committee has been formed to discuss the issue yet again ! This sub-Committee is due to conclude its findings at the end of March and, presumably, these findings will be discussed at the FRA Committee Meeting in the middle of April. This is perilously close to the deadline for the June “Fellrunner”, so it may well be that nothing will be done and the whole issue could roll on and on to the next AGM without any resolution.

In view of the strength of the AGM vote I feel that it is time that the whole of the FRA Membership should have the opportunity to express their opinion and I think it is now the appropriate time to call an Extraordinary General Meeting to discuss and vote on the issue so that, whatever happens, the Committee will be operating on a valid mandate from the Membership – which, judging by the vote at the AGM, it is not doing at the moment.

I am quite prepared to call for an Extraordinary General Meeting but to do so I need a requisition of 5% of the Membership, which is about 300 people.
I am hoping that, if you agree with the course of action I am proposing – or, even if you don’t, in the interests of democratic government – that you wouldn’t mind circulating the accompanying form around your Club and/or running colleagues so that they have a chance to support this action if they wish.
If you feel you could do this and return it to me when it’s gone the rounds then I would be most grateful.

Thanking you in anticipation.

Yours,

Dave Jones

ex-Editor “Fellrunner” magazine.
ex-Editor FRA Calendar.
ex-FRA Committee Member

[Welsh Harrier (MC)]

I wasn't able to attach the form but the wording is as follows and I suggest you e-mail Dave at djonesfra@aol.com with your name and club affiliation. (This of course is only valid if you are a current FRA member.)


FRA EXTRAORDINARY GENERAL MEETING

“THE FRA SHOULD SECEDE FORTHWITH FROM UK ATHLETICS”

At the recent FRA AGM a Motion was put forward for the FRA to secede from UK Athletics and hence return the management of fell-running to fell-runners.
The Chairman refused to allow the Motion to go forward as it had missed the deadline for submission but he agreed that the issue should be discussed at the end of the meeting. This discussion was quite lengthy and detailed and at its conclusion a vote was taken of all the members present at the AGM to see what the position was – this vote was “overwhelmingly” (quoted from the AGM Minutes) in favour of seceding from UK Athletics.

However, despite this clear expression of the AGM opinion, which would seem to indicate the need for a ballot of the whole Membership, all that has happened is that a sub-Committee has been formed to discuss the issue yet again ! This sub-Committee is due to conclude its findings at the end of March and, presumably, these findings will be discussed at the FRA Committee Meeting in the middle of April. This is perilously close to the deadline for the June “Fellrunner”, so it may well be that nothing will be done and the whole issue could roll on and on to the next AGM without any resolution.
In view of the strength of the AGM vote I feel that it is time that the whole of the FRA Membership should have the opportunity to express their opinion and I think it is now the appropriate time to call an Extraordinary General Meeting to discuss and vote on the issue so that, whatever happens, the Committee will be operating on a valid mandate from the Membership – which, judging by the vote at the AGM, it is not doing at the moment.

I am quite prepared to call for an Extraordinary General Meeting but to do so I need a requisition of 5% of the Membership, which is about 300 people.
If you agree with the Motion (or even if you don’t agree but feel it ought to be properly debated) and think a Meeting should be called I would appreciate it if you would complete the form below.

[phil cheek]

I have no doubt,they`re a pain in the butt,giving us nothing & causing us problems+ supporting,defending & even employing known convicted drug cheats.BUT....
WE ARE macc harriers & athletic club which begs the question " if we split as far as fell running are we compromising the sport for our track ,field & road athletes"
As long as we`re assured that`s not a problem then I`d say stuffem.But I`ve watched too many clubs split & destroy themselves & I`d rather stay a Macc Harrier & tolerate the interference than spli to set up a separate Macc Fell Club.Let`s NOT go that route.

Phil

[Stephen Watts]

Now I might have this completely wrong, but is it not the FRA that is proposing to secede from UK athletics. The FRA is joined by individuals and not Macc Harriers. Therefore, whatever the FRA decide to do has no bearing on Macc Harriers as a club and therefore should not affect any of the sections of the club. As a Macc Harrier I can continue to run on the road, track or across the fells and take part in road races, FRA affiliated fell race, LDWA events etc. I therefore don't see any conflict, but my knowledge on the subject is very limited and I therefore await someone explaining to me (and probably others in the club) where a conflict exists.
In addition, has anyone got any reasoned arguements why the FRA should/should not secede from UK Athletics (the slight increase in the membership fee to cover the additional insurance cost is not a good reason in my view). Perhaps Welsh Harrier can help. There have been a number of threads on the FRA forum that might enlighten people who are not familliar with this issue. But beware there is always a lot of rubbish written on forums! The Fellrunner magazine also has some information/views on the subject. I also think that the FRA members in the club should be proactive and have an informed say in the future of the FRA by making there views known. Let the debate start.

[Julian Brown]

I think it is safe to say that Macc Harriers as a club will not be splitting from UK Athletics.

As you probably know a part of your subs - plus a fee paid by the club - goes to paying for you to be an 'attached' athlete - as opposed to paying the unattached levy at certain (primarily road) races - by the way it is likely the 'unattached levy' fee will rise quite a bit from the current £1/£2 per race in the next few years.

All this will continue in the future, and will apply to you as long as you remain a member of Macc H, whatever the FRA do.

The debate is whether the FRA should split from UK Athletics, the consequence of which that (for better or worse, as they say) the FRA would 'look after' various things that are either fully or partly 'looked after' by UK Athletics currently. This is what the Welsh FRA have done.

[Colin Ardron]

My gut feeling is that the FRA is more than capable of running its own affairs. UK Athletics and FRA share some common ground ie they both oversee and organise athletic competitions which involve running. But the ethos of field, track and most road racing is so far different to that of fell running as make them almost different sports. I believe orienteers look after their own affairs perfectly well. The current angst over whether fell running should remain within the auspices of UKA stems largely from the perceived incompetence of UKA in its dealings with FRA especially with regard to race insurance and organisation last year, (someone correct me if this is not the case, or if there is more to this than I know about - very likely as it is difficult to find all the relevant facts).
Notwithstanding all this I would both expect and hope that the FRA Committee will not throw the baby out with the bath water without they have thoroughly examined all the pros and cons of going it alone or remaining with UKA - I believe a sub-committee has been set up for this express purpose. Maybe we should wait for their report in Spring this year.

[Beneficial Dictator]

A personal view / explanation of the situation ( which only applies to fellrunning - it has no affect for any other disciplines and the club will remain UKA affiliated ).
I think it is fair to suggest that UK Athletics and its predecessor organisations have made a bit of a dog's dinner of dealing with Fell running over the years. Many in athletics would suggest this applies to other branches of the sport also. The organisational base has suffered severe growing pains in an increasingly more litigious professional enviroment. We ( fellrunners ) are very low on UKA's priority list - Olympic's etc... rightly get a higher priority.
Fell running has always been somewhat anarchic in its organisation ( thats part of the reason many of us love it so much ). A turn up and run with the absolute minimum of fuss is favoured by almost all. Of course UKA have to look a bigger picture. With increased race insurance re: health & safety issues they have hastily brought in ( it would appear partly at least forced upon them ) marshaling rules that are unrealistic with regard fellrunning. This perceived problem has been sorted retrospectively in a stop gap manner by the current FRA committee and UKA have acknowledged their mistake.
Some FRA members including Dave Jones who recently resigned from the FRA Committee over the issue think fellrunning should "go it alone". This has already happened in the last couple of years in Scotland & Wales. I would also mention this "going it alone" idea has been mooted and defeated in the past - from memory now ( and I may be wrong here ) early 90's. The proposed EGM motion is asking for your support to potentially speed this going it alone through. Ie. Dave Jones has an agenda that is not necessarily supported by the majority of the current FRA Committee ( who you the membership appointed ).
I am not sure that it is a good thing to be on the outside of the main athletics organisation. Perhaps it is better to fight for change from the inside.
Support of this EGM motion is a personal matter do so if you wish. I suspect enough support will be gained to force it through. However if and when the EGM happens we the membership should be careful not to let a possibly relatively small but forceful minority lead the silent ( can't be bothered because it won't affect my fell running - I just turn up and run) majority.

Yours in Fell Running.
Craig Harwood.
Fell Rep & Vice Chair Macc Harriers.

[phil cheek]

You all seem very confident that there would be no effect on "Macc Harriers".I hope you`re right but I`m old enough to remember theAAA(same organisation,previous name) banning all & sundry,even 10 year olds,
from "their" races for running in races organised by nonapproved bodies.
I just have this vision of those stars of Cheshire Life the Bunyan boys being banned from Sports Hall,xcountry,road funruns `cos some "blazer" spots them in the results of Shuttlingsloe.

Phil

[geofpet1]

The reality is that the FRA does not need UK Athletics and that UK Athletics does not need the FRA. The FRA has always had an uneasy relationship with the governing body under its various guises.

As Craig says fell runners tend to have a somewhat anti bureaucratic and anarchic nature and the bureaucracy of the current incarnation of the governing body has gone OTT.

The FRA committe would appear to be reluctant to disengage from UK Athletics but the membership would appear to be in favour of such a move.

There will be an EGM and the FRA will secede - that is the correct outcome and I heartily look forward to it.

There is unlikely to be any impact at all on Macc Harriers of such a decision, just bureaucracy free running - bring it on!!

[thebunyans]

Fell running already has a significant organising body that is outside of UKA, namely BOFRA. A lot of the traditional races are run under this body ("guide races"), and since Phil is worried about my lads, it is interesting to note that BOFRA has a very active junior race scene that Allen may do a race or two in this year. I see it as no different to taking part in an Orienteering event that also has nothing to do with UKA.

I don't think the FRA being outside of UKA would have any effect on club membership, and my personal view is that it is good to have a "fell running" section within an athletics club. This readily facilitates cross over of runners between the disciplines, more professional coaching if required and helpers at events. I'm always grateful of road runners helping out at Teggs Nose, and a lot of fell runners help out at the Macc Half.

[Welsh Harrier (MC)]

WELL THAT’S CERTAINLY STIMULATED SOME HEARTY DISCUSSION!

Two years ago the fell running calendar in Wales was almost exterminated and only by forming our own independent organisation were we able to resurrect things at the 11th hour – as a results of this we now have a thriving scene in Wales with the added bonus of new races, new clubs and new fellrunners. Fellrunning in Wales is now run by fellrunners for fellrunners. A year or so earlier the situation in Scotland was similarly dire but Scottish Hillrunners were formed to save the day and escape the clutches of Scottish Athletics.

On the other hand…………as well as being a member of Macc Harriers I’m a member of Denbigh Harriers for whom I race cross country and road races. Of my £20 subscription for 2006/2007 £15 went to Welsh Athletics and I suppose it’s money reasonably well spent but I don’t think all XC/road Runners in Wales would agree with me.

My personal view is that over the past few years fellrunning has been neglected/ignored by the national governing bodies. The issue was forced earlier in Scotland and Wales partly because the fellrunning fraternity in these countries were not very well marshalled at the time. I suspect most of you think that fellrunning in England will carry on regardless in its own inimitable fashion but if we don’t stand up and be counted (or at least participate in the various discussions eg EGM of FRA) then we might find significant changes emerging before we realise it!